The five of us are embarking on the adventure of reading this very unique book together! Members of our group: Susan Ambrose, Sarah Roberts, Hailey Hinrichs, Elizabeth Barnes and Denise Crawford.
The hardcover book is enclosed in a slipcover labeled S. and is titled THE SHIP OF THESUS by V.M. Straka. Included with the book are 22 inserts and all sorts of interesting notes in the margins (in different colors). We have devised a system for reading it and are going chapter by chapter!
List of inserts/page numbers taken from http://sfiles22.blogspot.com/2013/01/list-of-inserts.html
1-8 We met for the first time this morning after completing our reading of the Translator's Note and Foreword. I think we all realize this is going to be a different type of book than we all usually zip through. Already know that we are going to need to have Google and a dictionary handy!
Over the weekend we are to read Chapter one, the notes in blue/black caps and pencil, as well as any appropriate inserts.
1-21 We had our 4th meeting today to discuss Chapter 3. After some discussion in an earlier meeting, we changed our plan and now are reading only SOT and the original pencil notes by Eric. The other margin notes were too distracting and confusing. We are seeing themes of identity, rebirth, change throughout. Quite a bit left to interpretation and imagination within the book and we are going through it a chapter at a time. He's (S---) gone from a tavern, to a ship, to a wharf during a demonstration. The locations are nameless.
1-26 - Met to discuss chapter 4. Another chapter, another adventure. This time S is in a house (labeled with S of course in that strange script) with the leaders of the demonstrators -- they are hiding from the police after the bomb went off -- they're suspects.
More recurring themes: birds and bees, Sola again (but a problem develops and a question of whether or not this is same girl), "home is not safe" -- always changing. Allegory about hell?
See the homage to the art of storytelling thru writing or oral narratives -- it's how we tell the world who we are? There is a connection between writer and reader!
New clothes for S - he get a new set almost everywhere he goes.
Thought -- S is being reborn, changing -- we change through experiences we have and people we meet -- same as S.
Seems to be a preoccupation with relationships.
Where is he geographically? Eastern Europe? City and country names not mentioned. Surnames of different nationalities such as French or Swedish.
Off to explore caves next. Traveling companions with S.
1-27 This is a great article from UTNE - please read and comment
The Ship of Thesus and the Question of Identity
1-29 Met this am to discuss Chapter 5. Still seeing the same themes and starting to wonder if SOT might be Straka's metaphoric autobiography? S__ sure finds himself in dire situations where he's given the chance to step up, but usually does not. He lets people down. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Is S___ passive-aggressive?
Another common theme is that of being alone vs relationships. "LOVE. LOSE. DIE." S__doesn't seem to have much luck with people he runs into and they sure don't fare better for meeting him.
The cave painting description was interesting as was their journey into (and out) of it.
Once again S___finds himself in water, alone, and lo and behold -- there's the SOT there, waiting, with all his old shipmates.
We see S__experiencing loss, a little shame and regret..how will he atone and do penance?
2-2 Met to discuss Chapter 6. Our confusion as to who S__ is, and what he's doing continues. Is he moving toward something or away from something? Everywhere he goes, people die trying to help him. Time is passing -- and he's unaware. He (his foot) was healed in the water (baptism?) and now is back on the ship. Bizarre ritual observed below decks. Crew down to 15 sailors from 19 and some are women, he just notices. He's writing his story on the walls of his cabin.
Reasons for change - time, circumstances, people and experiences.
2-9 Met to discuss Chapter 7. We were quite surprised by events that bring even more questions and confusion. S___ is writing. S____ has aged. S_____still has no answers to his history though it seems that memories are coming. The visit to the island was interesting -- who was that old woman?
Is this whole experience to this point some sort of dream state for S____? He's back to the ship after seeing all the books and the old woman. Makes a mistake to sneak a visit the orlop deck? or is it not a mistake after all?
2-11 Again we meet to talk about Chapter Interlude when S___is apparently fulfilling his duties with the contents of the valise and murdering the Agents who work for THE BOSS (Vevoda). It was interesting to see a reference to a specific place (Sarajevo) and a real event (assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand) and some other details that eliminate some of the vagueness associated with the rest of the book. May be helpful to review some of the pertinent history of that time and place. Circa 1914?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria
Interesting that S___sews up his own lips but takes out the thread when he leaves the ship to go on his missions. He still spends hours in the orlop writing "all the stories of the world" and time is fluid.
2-16 Met for Chapter 8 - on the Territory for another assassination. This time -- someone S___ has known in the past! Again his guides are killed/die. There's a baby too -- what does it mean? Some good quotes in this chapter: "What matters is what you DO, not what you are called." (name is not your identity). "Better a change than an end." "History - a story of choices." When S____attempts to return to the ship, it's been destroyed and all appear dead.
2-22 Well, we have finished reading the book of Ship of Thesus and were quite dismayed by the NONending. No answers. Just a lot of platitudes and axioms about life in general. What happened at the Chateau? Where are S and Sola going (if anywhere). Where's their ship? Is this a happy ever after ending for them?
Not sure what to do next. We've agreed that we will give a shot to going back through and now reading the margin notes and trying to figure out what the inserts have to do with anything. I'm afraid we all missed the boat and the message of this one...
2-29 How appropriate to end our reading of this book on "Leap Day" -- yes, we're done. After all this time, we just don't want to commit any more to trying to decipher the hidden meanings, go through the clues, and figure out any further revelations from this book. The experience was interesting, but in the end, all the "extras" didn't really do anything to add to the value or the story of S. In fact, the most common complaint from the group was that the story was frustrating and confusing.
SO -- we're glad we read it, found some insight about the truth of personal identity and change.
I'm thinking that others might get more out of it than we did, but we just didn't want to invest any more energy and continue reading between the lines (and around them) to get the whole story!
I like this quote (on a card inserted between pages 360-361) attributed to VM Straka: "A person is NO MORE & NO LESS than the story of his Passions and Deeds."
Thanks to the group members who hung in there for the whole thing!
Ms C.
29 comments:
I am really enjoying this book so far. It's crazy how many different situations he's been in so far in the bool. It's like each chapter he's somewhere completely different. He also seems to always meet the head people in charge once he ends up somewhere. Some questions from previous chapters still have me wondering and I hope they get answered in future chapters. I still really want to know what was in that secret room on the ship that all the workers would go into!
I thought this book so far has been really exciting but also confusing. There are so many characters and double meanings in this book so far that confuse me a little. I like how in every chapter we get to see a new scenery. This book reminds me a lot of Pirates of the Carribean with its ship theme. I have many questions with this book that hopefully will get answered in the end. I would also like to find out if somehow the paradox fits in with this book so where.
I enjoyed chapter 4 but some things did confuse me that I hope we learn more about throughout the novel. One thing that confused me was what part Vevoda played in all of it because we haven't really had any background information about him other than just that they believe he planted the bomb. Also, I have no idea why they call S "Agent X". Hopefully we'll find out more throughout the novel. I know I saw something about a secret room somewhere in that chapter so I will keep looking to find it again and I will comment again what I found!
Chapter 1: I thought Chapter one, in the beginning was confusing. I did not understand how a man who "attracts attention" could lose his identity. My thoughts were; could S have fallen (Like Straka has supposedly fallen to his death?) It seems like S has a lot of anxiety and personality issues on how he jumps from 1st person to 2nd person. This chapter did make me excited for what's ahead!
Chapter 2: Who is Lewis Looper? I started to research this person, and of course he is fictional. It says that Lewis Looper was V.M. Straka's agent from 1924-1930. Lewis later disappeared out of nowhere. I'm starting to think that this could be a connection possible to S. Is there any base of religion in these peoples lives? Does S believe in God, or could he possible be an atheist? In this chapter their is a mention of twins, DING: double personality. I know that Straka was a schizophrenic, he could have shown his mental disorders in the book. Who is Sola? I have a feeling that it could be the girl that S met in the bar. Nature is so relevant to this chapter. Spiders and tornadoes on the water. Their could easily be a connection. The sailors on the ship frighten me: Why are their mouths sewn shut? Why do they blow these whistles every time S comes around? And what is this mysterious Holystone? It doesn't make sense to me. S also seems to be in danger ALWAYS! This might have had something to do with his past life.
Chapter 3: Their seems to be a constant reoccurring theme. S is always emerging from water, and meeting these people who are in charge. Thinking back to Chapter 2, when S escaped off the boat, could these sailors have been trying to help him? It seems like S is being attracted to danger, and is leaving all the good and "safe" places. It mentions in this chapter that "writing is the key" I think for S, it could be the key of life. Writing could bring back his memories of the past. These people that S meets seem to trust him right off the bat, I can't wrap my head around why that is. The people in the town are putting down people who are in power, and people who run this so called "town company" I desperately want to know what is going on in there. Are these people making weapons? Are they trying to destroy the human race? The detectives seem to always keep quiet, what could they be hiding? I have a feeling that the detectives set off the bomb. (The scene of the bomb going off was so hectic that I can't even picture the scene). Out of nowhere S see's the woman who looks exactly like Sola! But, she has become older, and her hair is shorter. It makes me think about how much time has passed when S was on the boat. And makes me think if I can trust this Sola or not. Birds seem to be an important part of this chapter. These birds are always looking down on S and seeing what he is doing. I think the birds could be a symbol of almost like a Godly figure. The bird is ALWAYS watching you. The letter "S" also seems to be everywhere we turn. It makes me wonder more and more about who this man really is. Towards the end of the chapter it struck me when I saw this "Many lives and many chapters to go." I have a feeling that Straka is still alive. (I think that Straka's mysterious life, is as haunting as this book.)
Chapter 4: Right when I started reading chapter four I see a quote that says; "Expect the unexpected." This just gives me the idea that S is bad, that he cannot be trusted. I find out in this chapter that it was almost six months when S was on the ship. That brings me right back to Sola. She could change her appearance wherever she goes due to what she is up to. But, I still don't know what she does, and if I can trust her or not. The Author Hemingway seems to pop up from time to time in this chapter, why is Straka so fascinated by his works? Could Hemingway's works have a deeper meaning in the story? The "Dead Mans Boots" struck me in an odd way. Could S be dead, and is this some in between universe? Or is that taking it a little too far? ;) Something that also caught my attention is how when someone says a name of a town it is written and pronounced like this G----? and K----? Is that some type of a secret code? Shapes are an important part of this chapter as well, they talk about the shape of the shutters, the shape of the mountains, and the shape of the big sinking holes with the bad smells. Carnal witchery is also brought up, what does witchery have to do with his book? They say that the company and town were experiencing disappearances, where did these people who disappeared go to? What happened to them? Another animal/bird sighting is mentioned in this chapter as well. They talk about seeing a Silver Birch, and that S notices that he can sense animals, that they mean no harm to him. Were animals a big part of his life? I came across this quote as well "Spiritual connection between flame and narrative." It seems to me that, this quote really means that actions speak louder than words. "The Archer's Tales" made S remember or think about his past more deeply. Where could he have heard these stories before? Another bird sighting (page 158). Another bird sighting (page 165) The bad smell was coming from these gigantic holes in the ground filled with some type of black tar that burned your skin and clothing. While reading (and help with a side note), I came up with a theory: These holes were made while EXperimenting with weapons, these weapons have something to do with the mysterious company. EXperimenting: AGENT X! I can't make myself believe that S is really "Agent X" this Agent X person had to have created these weapons and these enormous holes in the ground that can kill you and even make you sick! This was an interesting chapter and it really pulled me in.
Chapter 5 left me with so many questions! First of all... You would not think S would be the person to actually survive through all that. I myself think of him as weak and not strong willed at all. He's proven that time and again already even just in this chapter by not standing up to help anyone. All those other characters seem so strong and have the will to make it through rough situations. I would think of the S as the man who tried to reason with the captors and ended up getting himself killed... It's harsh but that's the kind of man he seems to be. Also, there was the part of the book where he was "suprised to find himself as a good person"? How can he really say he's a good person if he didn't even do anything to help! You can have all the best intentions in the world but you cannot call yourself a good person unless you act on those intentions. And then after everyone is dead and he's back into the water, why are we back at the ship again!? how did those people survive? Is the water a symbol of rebirth? Are we just going to go around in circles? This chapter left me begging for so many answer to questions that I hope get answered soon!
We're still left, again, asking more and more questions that don't seem to be answered, even after Chapter 6. A big theme in this book has been about change, especially in your surroundings. But what's interesting is usually change and all these crazy things he's been through would more than likely change a person.. But he's the exact same as he was when we first meet him in Chapter 1. He still just focuses on himself, still has ideas of helping people but never does, (i.e. The young girl who he wants to take with him away from the island but, yet agai, does nothing), and still has people dying at every new place he arrives in order to help him. What's interesting about this chapter was that we've seen him leave places and never go back to the same place but is time he begins on the ship and ends back on the ship too. A big question I have is who is Vevoda!? We know things he's been accused of doing and now all these people know about him, including Maelstrom, but we still have no idea who he really is or why in the world he's after S. We're already halfway through the book so I hope things actually get answered soon.
I believe the reason animals have been mentioned through out the first few chapters of this book, is that S is trying to confide that he wants to be as free as these animals are. S wants to be free from the confines of his mind and world in order to fly to somewhere that he can be free.
I think this kind of book seems like the kind of book I would appreciate and read. I would be interested to know whether it was rated as a whole or just on each little part.
Chapter 7 took a very unexpected turn that I honestly didn't see coming and I also was a little disappointed. I thought from Chapter 2 that those people were going down into that room and there'd be so cool paranormal thing and or just SOMETHING interesting down there... But no... It was only a pen and paper!? Why does that leave them with so little energy? Why do they store it on that island in that huge warehouse? Why are their stories so important? I REALLY want to know who these people are and what they have in common to make them all members of the ship. Of course S went down into the room finally. I think we'd all expect him to be the one to not follow orders given. And now he has to sew his mouth shut? WHY?! Is it a punishment for writing? Do they then turn it around and use writing as the person's punishment along with getting their mouth sewn shut? I'm left, once again, with so many questions. I know they started sewing his mouth when the chapter ended but I wonder if they're actually go through with it or somehow S will be able to get away from it.
I'm also curious as to how many years this has been for S because it talked about how his hairline was receding. In an earlier chapter it said he was 26 so it has to have been many years.
Chapter 8 (Interlude) was extremely specific compared to the rest of the book that we've read so far. It actually talked about the Archduke being killed so I'm guessing S has been to Sarajevo? Now he's starting to kill off the Agents that work for Vevoda, aka The Boss. It's strange because before he seemed to be totally against killing these people and didn't want to think that he got these photos of the agents so that he could find them and kill them. Also, it strange that he sees his mouth on the ship, but cuts the threads when he leaves. Why even keep them on? Why suffer through the pain of constantly sewing his mouth when he can just keep it out? Would he get in trouble and not get to write anymore if he didn't have his mouth sewn?
In Chapter 9, we didn't necessarily get answers but we met Nemec (aka Pfeifer) again! Since he seemed to be the only one we didn't see killed, I'm suprised I didn't see this coming. He made a comment saying that it's better to have a change then an end. I feel like a lot of people would be the same in that situation if we had a gun pointed to our heads and a chance to have a really nice life, which Pfeifer ended up having after we met his wife and had children. For a while I honestly didn't think S was going to kill him. Again the people who helped S got killed. But where did the baby go? Was there ever even a baby? What does that baby mean. I'm interested to see if the ship comes back at some point since S saw it destroyed and everyone seemed dead. But this has happened before so I don't have doubts that it show up again.
Chapter 10 was extremely upsetting!!!!!!!!! NOTHING was answered? Okay so let's start from the beginning.... He's been obsessed with Sola this whole book and finding out who he is. She's there, nothing get answered as to who she is, why in the world she means anything, where she came from, why he's so attached to her. He STILL doesn't find out who he is.... Just rides off into the sunset with Sola after NOT killing Vevoda, just coming to the conclusion they'll be enemies forever and that's his fate, and S comes to the conclusion he'll find a boat with Sola and they'll be in charge of that and life will be just great.... IM SO CONFUSED as to why it ended that way.... If it's gonna end in some crazy perfect ending, can we at least get some questions answered? Did we miss something??
One of the more interesting themes I kept circling with was the ship itself. At the beginning he wanted to be off the ship and couldn't understand why he was on it. He finally got off it, went through some dangerous experiences, and ended up back on it. By the end of the book, he's ok with being on the ship and the way that its patched up and reconstructed. It reminds me of the way that we go through life. Alot of us go through a phase where we don't know who we are, and just want to get away from our current life and family. We reinvent ourselves adding in some new insights, skills and pulling back in some old ones in new places-just like the ship. Later in life, we hopefully are more comfortable with our lives and accept who we are, but still are changing and are comfortable with that process.
I found the ending too open-ended. My guess is that this is supposed to be a book you can read, re-read through different phases of your life and get different messages and perspectives. Each reader can internalize those messages that resonate with them at the moment. I feel like the whole concept of a secret message or puzzle throughout the book may have "thrown off" the whole experience. I was constantly looking for clues, and getting very frustrated!!!
Two final thoughts:
1. Would the book have made more sense if we as a group had more historical background? It seems like there were all kinds of references to historical events and figures, but I didn't know enough to be able to pull out the relevance.
2. Would the book have made more sense if we had "googled" alot more information? Or would it have made things even more confusing?
This over all was a confusing read. So many things had been left unanswered. I understand we did get a lot about knowing yourself and identity but other than that, I was really confused. And the side notes were very confusing also. Did we miss something? It's hard to do research on all of this because these people aren't real! And these people in the book are experts on Straka and his other writings when we really aren't. I'm worried we missed something or maybe we needed to know more about the history that is talked about in the book? I'm not really sure what else we could've done.
Chapter 1:
"...will direct his slow-witted but strong-armed sons to follow the man through night, as long as it takes, until he gives himself away." Page 9
In my opinion I believe we see the first example of a life cycle. You see we follow life through many place of light and darkness, and then we give ourselves up to life at the end of our cycle. That means that at the end of our time we give up ourselves to something that was going to take it in the end.
Chapter2:
I believe that the sewed faces depict that the person has maybe said a secret or story that wasn't their to tell. So for punishment their mouth was sown shut in order to prevent them from talking about anything. Therefore, that cuts off their ability to tell stories or secrets making it seem as if that persons chapter has ended.
Chapter 3:
"...these sorry trousers are his only possession, his only connection to a stolen past." Page 70
When it talks about a stolen past it makes me believe that maybe S had a point in all this where someone stole his memories. That this whole book is based on his memory coming back, and that these parts of the story are where he has relayed messages to the secret room in the ship and its been turned into this book. That the secrets in the room with the light have been released and we now have books created from these messages, secrets, and stories.
Chapter 5
"...who have no time to spare, and who know they will never be here again." Page 179
I think this quote represents those that are ready to die. Their life cycle has come to an end, and that means they have no more stories to tell. They are ready to surrender to death and start a brand new chapter in a new book.
Chapter 6
Words are a gift to the dead a gift to the dead a gift to the dead. Page 235
I think that this represents that words are a gift that unlocks the dreads secrets. They allow us to hear those that feel unheard. The dead are unheard but their words are loud blasts of history.
Chapter 7
There's a part where someone refers to The Lady. I think that the lady is not actually a person but maybe represents the gate keeper to the past or to all the secrets/stories hidden in both the cabin and the ship. That she isn't physically a lady but rather a key.
Chapter 8
"His efforts will not be sufficient, but they may well be necessary." Page 350
I took this quote as our efforts to survive may not be sufficient enough to society, but they are necessary to us. Our efforts may be viewed as low grade/minuscule to society, but to ourselves these very efforts may be the things that are keeping us from drowning.
Chapter 9
"...and yet the anger reminds him of what it feels like to be vibrant and real." Page 385
This quote makes me believe that the way our society is, it's almost as if we are supposed to be these mindless robots that aren't allow to feel things that society/ the world feels unfit. This means that when we get angry or upset it's almost as if we are becoming real, like we are finally allowed to feel emotions that are viewed as rebellious.
Chapter 10
"Settled. Returned to the earth and settled." Page 450
This is the final point in the story. We went through the excitement of life and now we all must settle and return to the earth. This is not only the ending chapter of the book, but almost like it's the ending chapter of all the characters.
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